From the friendly folks at Las Palomas via craigslist

[jerry]

RENTAL WARNING!! ( IF YOURE PAYING THE OWNER DIRECTLY BEWARE !! )

Know the facts before you illegally rent at Las Palomas. Las Palomas has strict rental rules that are enforced.

RENT ILLEGALLY & GET STUNG.....If your renting direct from the owner & paying the owner direct just understand this. You are taking a big risk. Do they really own a unit? Is the unit as they describe? You will have to pay Las Palomas an extra $25 per person + $5 each day per person for wrist bands. The unit will not be on the Las Palomas rental pool which also means that while your renting if something breaks in the unit ( ex a/c, fridge, TV, etc ) Las Palomas maintenance will NOT come & fix it for you. You will be stuck hoping you can get a hold of this owner in a different country. You also won't be able to transfer to another unit, etc. The unit also will NOT have been inspected by LP to meet it's rental requirements. Also your maid service will not be included. Items may not work in the unit as they are often broken & not fixed by the owner. Many times the owner won't even know if something is broken in their unit. You will also have to pretend you are not renting the unit & risk LP finding out that you are.

OR RENT THE SAFE LEGAL WAY W/ GUARANTEE'S & HAVE ALL SERVICES PROVIDED... Get the great owner's discounted price by talking w/ the owner who's INSPECTED unit is on the LP rental pool & professionally managed by LP, THEN you can pay the resort directly w/ all the normal cancellation and maintenance guarantee's & know that you are checking into an inspected, clean & qualified condo. You can check in at the front desk as normal, recieve all wrist bands, maid service, towell service, use of all amenities, etc free..If anything breaks it will be fixed promptly by LP maintenance or LP will promptly move you to another unit. Las Palomas rental pool units are regularly inspected by LP & meet certain requirements. You won't have to worry about a thing & you can just enjoy your vacation.


THE 2010 LEGAL LAS PALOMAS OWNER DISCOUNTED MINIMUM ALLOWED RATES ARE....( OCEAN FRONT ) 1bd $135..... 2 bedroom $185.... 3bd $250 OR
( OCEAN VIEW ) 1 bd $120..... .2 bedroom $160 ....... 3bd $215


UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OCEAN FRONT & OCEAN VIEW. Ocean FRONT is the building that is on the beach and closer to the water than the other buildings which offeres better views, you can hear the waves, able to see down the beach, no building's infront of you etc. ...... Ocean VIEW is the farther back building's that limit your overall view & view of the beach, longer walk to the beach, building's on all sides of you including partially infront of you, etc.

OUR ADVICE TO YOU.... ( do not pay the owner directly ).. CORRECT way is to contact the owner for the discount THEN pay the resort ) don't risk your vacation trying to save a couple of bucks a night. If the price you see is lower than anyone else's or is lower than the above mentioned minimums, BEWARE your dealing w/ a shady owner knowingly breaking the rules & putting you at risk, etc..



puerto penasco legal front desk rules requirements allowed puertopenasco penassco rockypoint pointe palommas pallomas law hoa security las pallomas palommas palomass sonora beach and golf resort

[Stuart]

You *must* conform... you will be assimiliated....

[rockyptjoe]

So....do owners also have to wrist bands?

And how do people work it when they have friends/relatives staying when the owner is not actually there????

[dwig222]

Las Palmas is so overpriced. If you look for RP rentals on the internet, they are mostly Las Palmas because they can't rent directly and they have to charge what the resort sets as "fair", but it's not. Between the economy and the media reports about RP there are fewer people going down so the condo owners are renting their units for a lot less. If you want to rent a condo, contact the owner directly if you want a good deal. We've been doing it for years and have never paid the resort directly. We get a wristband where we rent and the owner pays the one time maid service. $185 for a two bedroom is overpriced especially when you have to pay the cleaning fee and deposits! - we don't even pay half of that for a waterfront condo.

[waterkids]

Is this Las Palmas or Las Palomas? Rockyptjoe, no owners do not have to have wrist bands but we have i.d. tags we carry. If our friends or family go there they do have to pay 25 dollars for a wrist band. We are not in the rental pool though. We bought just for our family to enjoy.

[dwig222]

It's Las Palomas. They are not allowed to rent privately to anyone. I feel bad for people who bought there because their hands are tied by the resort and they have to charge so much more than the going rate in RP. Las Palmas allows the owners to rent privately. You can get a 2bdrm condo for less than $100 a night at Las Palmas by going directly to the owner. Even the nicer hotels are much cheaper than what Las Palomas requires.

[waterkids]

The original post was confusing as it was throwing out both names. Thanks.

This is one reason we did not buy to rent out. Of course this is bad for all of us who own.

[playaperro]

Jerry how you doing on your rentals out in Santo Tomas..Do you have Wrist Bands..

[rockyptjoe]

Is this Las Palmas or Las Palomas? Rockyptjoe, no owners do not have to have wrist bands but we have i.d. tags we carry. If our friends or family go there they do have to pay 25 dollars for a wrist band. We are not in the rental pool though. We bought just for our family to enjoy.

That is ridiculous...you pay a maintenance fee regardless if you use the place or not, and still have to pay a wristband fee for family/friends???? How many I.D. tags do you get?

[waterkids]

We have I.D. tags for my immediate family, my parents too. I don't mind the wrist band charge, they were having a huge problem with people coming into the pool area who were not staying there. If our friends go down
and stay out our place then heck they can pay 25 dollars. Like I said we don't rent so that's pretty cheap:)

[Jim]

Hey, I'm guilty of trespassing. I take my family to many resorts without permission. I don't feel guilty as we always spend lots of $$$ on drinks and food.

[waterkids]

Well that's great. You are paying for food, drinks etc. Are you also paying for the upkeep of the grounds, pool maintenance etc??? We are. Every month.

[rockyptjoe]

Well that's great. You are paying for food, drinks etc. Are you also paying for the upkeep of the grounds, pool maintenance etc??? We are. Every month.

You are already paying a monthly charge for the common areas.....and you still think it's right that a guest of yours, regardless if they are staying at your condo, or not, still has to pay for a wristband???? Hey, I've got a vehicle that you can lease from me....but any passengers other then your immediate family has to pay a daily charge to get in the vehicle!!!!

[jerry]

Jerry how you doing on your rentals out in Santo Tomas..Do you have Wrist Bands..

Thanks for asking perro.I do have wristbands (made from the dead whale 1 mile south) and I would be completely screwed if I couldn't rent it out myself.My property tax costs 350 bucks a year,drinkable water, consistent electric power,garbage,trash,great security and emergency maintenance totals another1000 a year...it all adds up.Hey how about your desal plant? what's up with that?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/corvid/sets/72157594375542629/

[jerry]

Waterkids: that big boy sized BabyRuth in the pool.....don'i touch it!

Well that's great. You are paying for food, drinks etc. Are you also paying for the upkeep of the grounds, pool maintenance etc??? We are. Every month.

[waterkids]

Waterkids: that big boy sized BabyRuth in the pool.....don'i touch it!


I would never dream of disturbing you while you are sunbathing.

[jerry]

I would never dream of disturbing you while you are sunbathing.

Funny...I am a big turd there is no doubt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_aBzrV37M

[Eric]

waterkids is exactly right....you have to understand that Las Palomas has to do what it does because of its size & what they offer...hundreds of people were sneaking in daily who wernt staying there & overcrowding the pools / hot tubs / water slides etc without paying. You have to remember that Palomas has 10 pools, 4 hot tubs, 2 lazy rivers, 1 water slide, gym, kids club, golf course, etc etc ..The other resorts offer typically 1 pool & 1 hot tub. So no other resort has this problem.
So ofcoarse Palomas owners have a HOA fee higher than most resorts ( all these amenities cost a lot of money to maintain & build )...SO you can only imagine the LP owners do not want to have a ton of people who snuck in overcrowding the pools etc who arent supposed to be there.
Immediate owners & family dont pay a wrist band fee but if a friend of a owner who gets to stay for FREE at a posh LP condo via the owner...do you really think they are gonna care about paying a wrist band fee giving them access to millions of dollars in amenities....of coarse not their staying for free...
If someone doesnt want to pay a wrist band fee then don't sneak in & try to use the pools / hot tubs etc..Purchase or legally RENT a condo there. By the way If you go & just eat or drink at the interior restaurant/bar's there you dont have to pay a wrist band fee. BUT If your using the pools etc or just hanging out by the pools , drinking etc your gonna have to pay the wrist band fee..
The reason Palomas doesnt allow private rentals is because some owners were renting thier condos for ridiculous amounts like $49 a night and the riff raff factor was out of control. LP has a huge rental management staff, concierge, room service, guest service, maid service, towell service etc etc that it has to pay for via their part in the rental process....
99% of the Las Palomas owners are very happy w/ these rules...

[Kenny]

The reason Palomas doesnt allow private rentals is because some owners were renting thier condos for ridiculous amounts like $49 a night and the riff raff factor was out of control.

So how much do you think it cost's each owner to keep the "riff raff factor" out of the pool each year? I know it's impossible to figure how much loss a responsible owner could lose by not being allowed to rent their own property, but go ahead, give it a go.

[rockyptjoe]

Eric....the human mind is capable of rationalizing anything....including getting screwed even though you own the condo!!!

Where's Happy when we actually need him???

[Kenny]

Joe, to say that 99% of a group of people are "very happy" with a set of rules is nonsense. You can't get 99% of a group of people to agree to much of anything, not alone something that involves money.

[dry heat]

Las Palomas is not reinventing the wheel. Most condo/resorts around the world have similar rules regarding impact fee's for guests, not allowing non-guests to use facilties such as pools and gyms, and not allowing owners to set their own pricing. If someone wants no rules and wants no one to tell them what to do then don't live in a planned community. It is no different that someone owning in an community that is governed by a homeowners association and that association tells you such things as you have to pull your weeds, you can't park on the street overnight, etc. I totally understand why some owners who are losing their homes because they can't do as they please and those that took advantage of the resort would be upset. Before you purchase something read the bylaws of what you can and can't do. Just because you own something does not mean you can do as you please, unless you live in a van down by the river- or should I say a trailer down by the sea. Bring it fools... Bring it fools, I miss you guys. ;)

[Kenny]

I totally understand why some owners who are losing their homes because they can't do as they please and those that took advantage of the resort would be upset.

Then you agree with my last post dry rash, don't you?. No way 99% think it's all hunky dory.

That was a computer generated reply by dry rash, wasn't it?

[rockyptjoe]

Las Palomas is not reinventing the wheel. Most condo/resorts around the world have similar rules regarding impact fee's for guests, not allowing non-guests to use facilties such as pools and gyms, and not allowing owners to set their own pricing. If someone wants no rules and wants no one to tell them what to do then don't live in a planned community. It is no different that someone owning in an community that is governed by a homeowners association and that association tells you such things as you have to pull your weeds, you can't park on the street overnight, etc. I totally understand why some owners who are losing their homes because they can't do as they please and those that took advantage of the resort would be upset. Before you purchase something read the bylaws of what you can and can't do. Just because you own something does not mean you can do as you please, unless you live in a van down by the river- or should I say a trailer down by the sea. Bring it fools... Bring it fools, I miss you guys. ;)

I never said anything about non guests using the facilities....

Not allowing owners to set their own pricing....now that is something I disagree with...that means that most owners get screwed because there is considerably less demand for the rentals with the pricing set by ....who???? Is it the HOA, or some entity in another part of Mexico that has still not relinquinshed control of the resort to the owners????? I wonder are there are any HOA's in the states, once they allow rentals, that also set the pricing???

I wonder who the fools really are....the people who bought overpriced condos that still haven't been completed, or the people who bought a trailer that they own outright and can enjoy their time by the sea????

[HAPPY]

rockyptjoe say, ~~~ "Where's Happy when we actually need him" ~~~ I'm here rocky, ~~~ enjoying the show, ~~~ & there have been a few since I be back, BUT I just be watching :razz:

rockyptjoe say again, ~~~ "getting screwed even though you own the condo" ~~~

No, no, ~~~ it be ~~~ Pigeon coops ~~~ rocky :razz:

I just had to say that, ~~~ Now please don't get me started, ~~~ cause you know what happens, ~~~
:razz:

[rockyptjoe]

Ok Happy....sorry for instigating:stir:....you've been a good (but quiet) boy since you got back!!:notworthy:

[Ladyjeeper]

Thank God I live in a trailer by the sea!!!......

[jerry]

Thank God I live in a trailer by the sea!!!......

Trailer by the sea...sounds like a good song title or maybe a detective series where the divorced private eye or cop on the edge lives by ...oops James Gardner, Mel Gibson etc. have already done it.

I think the only scary thing about these condos is the fee structure....do you own a condo or are you being held captive by the management group?

[AZrockpoint]

Then you agree with my last post dry rash, don't you?. No way 99% think it's all hunky dory.


Kenny, you are absolutely correct. Many, many owners at Las Palomas have not drunk the Kool aid and are unhappy with these ridiculous rules. Can you imagine paying several hundred dollars a month in HOA fees and then being asked to spend another $25 plus $5 per person per day for your own guests to stay in your condo? Pretty short sighted huh? Maybe this will help keep a few "rif raff" from the resort and stop some owners from charging low rates, but this has to hurt resale values. After all, who would buy into a resort that charges you to use your own personal condo?

[AZrockpoint]

Las Palomas is not reinventing the wheel. Most condo/resorts around the world have similar rules regarding impact fee's for guests)

Pure nonsense. No resort in Rocky Point other than Las Palomas nor "most in the world" have impact fee's for guests of owners.

[Kenny]

I had a problem with that ridiculous 99% statement, it made the rest of what he had to say questionable at best. That's not to say that some might not give a hoot though.

Bring it fools... Bring it fools, I miss you guys.
Now as far as dry rash is concerned; Well some of us think he just might be bored and making up stories, you know, having to sit at home with that ankle bracelet on... It would be very hard for me to slander a no face no name, now wouldn't it?
I missed you too.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_4.gif

[waterkids]

A lot of people were renting out their condos as "guests of the owners" also. They did not personally know the people. People not going through check in etc. We bought in LP because it was what WE wanted. We did not want a free for all at the pools . There has to be some accountability of who is there. Yes, we pay HOA's and I do not think it is out of line for a friend we might lend our condo to to pay 25 dollars for a frigging wrist band to
assure the management they are there legitimately.

This really gets old. Some of you guys have different ideas than a few of us. Whenever a condo owner pipes up on here it is like a swarm of ants on a piece of watermelon. The resort type atmosphere is what some of us
wanted. We have a right to reasonably expect that it is secure. YES some of us do not mind the extra 25 dollars for more of a sense of security. They do monitor those bands and I for one am glad.

ETA: I absolutely do not think there is a thing wrong with a trailer by the sea BTW. I think that sounds nice in fact. It just wasn't for us at this time in our lives.

[rockyptjoe]

A lot of people were renting out their condos as "guests of the owners" also. They did not personally know the people. People not going through check in etc. We bought in LP because it was what WE wanted. We did not want a free for all at the pools . There has to be some accountability of who is there. Yes, we pay HOA's and I do not think it is out of line for a friend we might lend our condo to to pay 25 dollars for a frigging wrist band to
assure the management they are there legitimately.

This really gets old. Some of you guys have different ideas than a few of us. Whenever a condo owner pipes up on here it is like a swarm of ants on a piece of watermelon. The resort type atmosphere is what some of us
wanted. We have a right to reasonably expect that it is secure. YES some of us do not mind the extra 25 dollars for more of a sense of security. They do monitor those bands and I for one am glad.

If you are getting what you wanted in your purchase...that's great....enjoy! However, trying to convince us that a $25 wristband provides some kind of accountability is just rationalization on your part.

I look at a "guest" (and I'm talking about a true guest, not someone I'm renting to) having to pay for something that I've already paid for in my HOA fees and in the purchase of the condo to begin with, as a rip off of ME!!! Different viewpoint....you're equating the "guest" not paying as the guest being cheap or something...I'm equating it to the resort/condo just ripping.

As to "the swarm of ants"...the other poster essentially was suffering from snobbery...with his comment!

[dry heat]

For a 3 month period last year these were the ratios of guests at the resort... 70% guest of owner, 20% owner, 10% paying guest. When the guest of owner impact fee was put in place the average guest of owner changed to 40% and the paying guest of the resort went up to 30%.

It is obvious that guests were paying owners directly rather than the resort. Each paying guest of the resort pays an impact fee to the HOA for extra wear and tear when reserving via the resort, when paying guests are paying owners directly raher than the resort ALL owners suffer because the resort is not collecting these impact fees that would normally be collected and would pay for the extra wear and tear of a paying guest. Yes, daily impact fees are standard in the industry (see seaside, castaway and any other reservation company in puerto penasco). Unfortunately the "guest of owner" system was being abused and all owners were affected by a large group of cheating owners who did not pay lodging taxes (income that goes to the city) and impact fees. the impact fee is only paid when the owner is not present.

On the other hand if a family member or friend is giving you his place free of charge and the only fee you have to pay is $25 for the stay and $5 per person to stay at a 4 diamond resort, would you really be complaining? Usually the owners who were cheating the system are the ones most pissed about losing that income that is going to cause them to lose their property- tough sh**.

AZ Rockpoint, my poor lost puppy... you hint that most condo/resorts don't have impact fee's well you are wrong daniel son. Ex. Ritz Carlton owners club charges, MGM signature charges, St Regis residences does... all places my coup ass owns at. And to correct another ignorant statement... the management company sets the pricing and every owner was aware that you cannot rent for profit outside of the management company per the bylaws- one of your friends must be losing their place due to needing that extra $50 for rent so I totally understand their frustration and maybe their inability to read prior to buying. Oh and if that many are upset about the management company and would like someone else to run it, it only takes 75% of the owners to remove the management company. Don't forget to drain the sewer line before leaving the trailer.

Oh and please entertain me old man kenny

[waterkids]

One more thing and then off my soapbox. Jerry, you started this thread. Do you own at LP? Do their rules effect you personally? I could understand if a condo owner posted that as a gripe but I don't understand your particular interest in it.

[Kenny]

Dry heat goe's way back waterkids, years back. Trust me, he'd be really disapointed if we didn't give him a bad time.

I guess Eric is a condo owner, but with the "10 pools, 4 hot tubs, 2 lazy rivers, 1 water slide, gym, kids club, golf course, etc etc", and that along with the "99%", he sounded more like a salesman.

[rockyptjoe]

Dry Heat....I do have a friend who owns there....but he lives there, and does not rent it out.....so if I go visit him (not staying overnight) and we want to hang out by the pool, I'm supposed to pay $30 ($25 plus $5)???? I must be making quite a mess in the pool and really creating a lot of wear and tear on the resort!!!! :rofl:

"Impact fee"????? I thought the HOA/maintenance fees were supposed to cover the expenses of maintaining the "resort"....

75%?????? That's a stacked deck....the likelihood of 75% of any group agreeing on something is extremely low!!!

[rockyptjoe]

Waterkids....I don't begrudge you owning at one of the "resorts"....if that's your family's "thing", then great. It's your money!

I'm not big on pools....if I come down to Penasco, I'm going to swim in the ocean (gulf), no matter how rough the water is, not lounge around the pool all day. I don't need all of the "resort amenities" that some feel they need.....if I was interested in that, I would stay home and spend the $20K or more to put in my own pool, or go to one of the resorts in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area, instead of driving 220 miles to Mexico....

My kids grew up tent/van/trailer camping at Playa Bonita (my gosh, we even survived for a whole week without tv before I started bringing down my satellite dish!!!)....playing in the water, exploring the rocks when the tide went out, going out to Cholla at low tide, and walking halfway across the bay looking for sand dollars, flying a kite, meeting other kids and their families doing the same, taking a siesta in the heat of the afternoon during the summer, bonfires on the beach at night toasting marshmallows with the newfound friends, and falling asleep on a beach chair watching the stars! After they were in bed....then dad was able to relax with a margarita watching the same stars....and sometimes falling asleep in the same beach chair. Simple pleasures that I consider "priceless"!

But like I said, different strokes for different folks.....

[InkaRoads]

I do enjoy my trailer by the sea, simple things of life, food and a cold beer too!!

could this be coupers anthem......:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNcZ8Nv5EAc

:eek3:

[garyd]

The battle between the Trailer People and the Condo People is great reading but can the name on the thread be changed to Las Palomas from Las Palmas as it is unfair to the Las Palmas owners to be getting all this negative press.

[AZrockpoint]

For a 3 month period last year these were the ratios of guests at the resort... 70% guest of owner, 20% owner, 10% paying guest. When the guest of owner impact fee was put in place the average guest of owner changed to 40% and the paying guest of the resort went up to 30%.

On the other hand if a family member or friend is giving you his place free of charge and the only fee you have to pay is $25 for the stay and $5 per person to stay at a 4 diamond resort, would you really be complaining?


Oh Dryheat, you are a man of statistics....how substantive! So tell me, how many rentals is that management company getting for you? Because, when I have sneaked onto your resort, used the pools, and spoke to some of the owners, they do not seem so happy. What luck, I must have been talking to the 1%.

You could probably also help me with my math. Let's see...an owner, has paid $300-600K for a condo and several additional thousands of dollars in maintenance fees every year invites a "true guest" family of five to stay in his/her condo for a week. The owner/guest would then have to pay an additional $200 to use their own condo. That is $25 plus $5 per person per day right?

Hmmm, sounds like a pretty sweet deal, who could complain??? You should advertise that full disclosure when you try and sell your condo.

[jerry]

One more thing and then off my soapbox. Jerry, you started this thread. Do you own at LP? Do their rules effect you personally? I could understand if a condo owner posted that as a gripe but I don't understand your particular interest in it.

Well I'm just looking out for the folks as one of your heros on Fox puts it. If you noticed in another thread i reported the( suppressed by Mexican and American rich guys) story of the huge gun battle in Nogales last week.You saw the story here on the forum because my Buddy Michael from the Border Reporter is the only honest newsman left in Southern Arizona. It wasn't until yesterday kvoa 4 ran a story on this nightmare
http://www.kvoa.com/news/former-sportscaster-caught-in-nogales-violence/

Oh by the way try this with the old rusted tower if we all have to run for it some day.
http://www.oobject.com/sky-captain-gadgets-vehicles/airstream-trailer/1067/

[Brad47]

The battle between the Trailer People and the Condo People is great reading but can the name on the thread be changed to Las Palomas from Las Palmas as it is unfair to the Las Palmas owners to be getting all this negative press.

Yeah Tyler.......please change the title to reflect the actual resort the thread is targeting......LAS PALOMAS ......NOT Las Palmas. The last thing I want see next weekend when I come to down is a bunch of riff raff hanging out using the amenities I pay for. Honestly if they spend money at the bar and grill and don't trash the place it would be a good thing !!

When we bought back in 2005 I really didn't like going down because of all the renters. Now days I have the place all to myself and can find a parking space at the Malecon without any trouble, its like the olds day !!!

[Kenny]

Now days I have the place all to myself

How cool, for some chump change they'll probably let you knock out a few walls http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_108.gif for a upgrade.

[Brad47]

How cool, for some chump change they'll probably let you knock out a few walls http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_108.gif for a upgrade.

No expansion in our future, we have the place up for sale. The kids have all moved out and our lifestyle is changing, believe it or not we will most likely buy an RV so where not tied to just one place.

[Kenny]

847 See ya around.

[jerry]

No expansion in our future, we have the place up for sale. The kids have all moved out and our lifestyle is changing, believe it or not we will most likely buy an RV so where not tied to just one place.


FLASH>>>NEWS FLASH>>>>Avoiding a angry group of Housewives of Orange County type condo enforcers Brad47 has reportedly crossed the neutral zone and defected to a yet unspecified trailer park. He reportedly abandoned his tassled leather driving shoes, Tommy Bahamas, Izod and Polo infused wardrobe and rappled down the back wall in camo gear with a six pack of tecate in his pack,

[Brad47]

FLASH>>>NEWS FLASH>>>>Avoiding a angry group of Housewives of Orange County type condo enforcers Brad47 has reportedly crossed the neutral zone and defected to a yet unspecified trailer park. He reportedly abandoned his tassled leather driving shoes, Tommy Bahamas, Izod and Polo infused wardrobe and rappled down the back wall in camo gear with a six pack of tecate in his pack,

Once I get my RV (not a trailer) maybe I will get an invite to the annual thanksgiving bash ! Better yet would be an invite the annual corvina hunt at your place, Jerry. Maybe Kenny and myself could caravan down from Prescott together.

[Kenny]

I'm speechless.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif

[Roberto]

:o:o
i'm speechless.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif

impossible !

[InkaRoads]

an yet another conversion, must be the economy, downsizing!! no, no is the riff raff from the trailer trash parks!! :eek3: